>>ANNOUNCER: TODAY ON THE JOHN ANKERBERG SHOW:
RAVI ZACHARIAS ANSWERS THE SKEPTICS. RAVI GREW UP
IN INDIA WHERE HIS ANCESTORS BELONGED TO THE HIGHEST CASTE
OF HINDU PRIESTS.
BUT ONE DAY HE HEARD THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST
AND BECAME A CHRISTIAN.
HE HAS GONE ON TO BECOME ONE OF THE MOST BRILLIANT
CHRISTIAN APOLOGIST'S IN THE WORLD, TRAVELING TO MORE
THAN 70 COUNTRIES AND SPEAKING AT THE MOST
PRESTIGIOUS UNIVERSITIES, NOTABLY HARVARD, PRINCETON,
DARTMOUTH, JOHNS HOPKINS, AND OXFORD UNIVERSITY.
HE ADDRESSED THE WRITERS OF THE PEACE ACCORD IN SOUTH
AFRICA AND MILITARY OFFICERS AT THE LENIN MILITARY ACADEMY
AND THE CENTER FOR GEOPOLITICAL STRATEGY
IN MOSCOW. THREE TIMES HE HAS BEEN INVITED TO SPEAK
AT THE ANNUAL PRAYER BREAKFAST AT THE UNITED NATIONS IN
NEW YORK,AND HE HAS ADDRESSED THE NATIONAL PRAYER BREAKFASTS
IN THE SEATS OF GOVERNMENT IN OTTAWA, CANADA AND LONDON,
ENGLAND, AND SPOKEN AT THE CIA IN WASHINGTON, DC.
JOIN US TODAY FOR THIS SPECIAL EDITION
OF THE JOHN ANKERBERG SHOW.
>> JOHN ANKERBERG: WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.
I'M JOHN ANKERBERG, THANKS FOR JOINING ME TODAY.
AS YOU HAVE JUST HEARD, WE HAVE A BRILLIANT GUEST
WITH US, CHRISTIAN APOLOGIST, PHILOSOPHER, THEOLOGIAN
RAVI ZACHARIAS.
AND WE ARE TALKING, WE ARE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS THAT
STUDENTS HAVE GIVEN TO HIM, ON CAMPUS LIVE,
IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.
AND WE HAVE ALREADY COVERED
THE FAR EAST AND THE MIDDLE
EAST AND LAST WEEK EUROPE.
AND TODAY WE'RE GOING TO TALK
ABOUT QUESTIONS THAT HAVE
BEEN ASKED OF RAVI ABOUT GOD,
JESUS AND THE BIBLE AT PLACES
LIKE HARVARD AND DARTMOUTH
AND PRINCETON AND OTHER,
OTHER PLACES. AND SO, RAVI,
I AM GLAD THAT YOU ARE HERE.
AND HERE'S THE FIRST QUESTION FROM A STUDENT HERE
IN AMERICA: HOW CAN A GOD OF ALL POWER AND ALL LOVE
ALLOW FOR EVIL IN THIS WORLD, ESPECIALLY IF HE KNEW
IN ADVANCE THAT THE WORLD WOULD FALL APART AFTER HE CREATED IT,
AND WE WOULD HAVE ATROCITIES AND THE SICKNESS
AND THE SUFFERING THAT WE HAVE?
>>RAVI ZACHARIAS: I THINK, JOHN, THIS IS THE THORNIEST
QUESTION, TRULY THE ONE THAT PROBABLY MOST PEOPLE ASK.
SOMEONE PUT IT IN THESE WORDS, "VIRTUE IN DISTRESS,
AND VICE IN TRIUMPH HAS MADE ATHEISTS OF MANKIND."
OR WHAT ALFRED, LORD TENNYSON SAID, "NEVERMORE MORNING WERE
TO EVENING BUT THAT SOME HEART DID BREAK."
IT IS A... IT IS A PAINFUL QUESTION IN ITSELF, BECAUSE
IT DEALS WITH PAIN.
PAIN IS A REAL THING; IT'S NOT AN IMAGINARY THING.
THERE ARE MANY WAYS THAT ONE CAN APPROACH AN ANSWER,
BUT C.S. LEWIS USED TO REMIND
US THAT IT IS CRITICALLY
IMPORTANT TO EXAMINE
THE ASSUMPTIONS WITHIN
A QUESTION. AND I REMEMBER
YEARS AGO AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF NOTTINGHAM WHEN I'D FINISHED A TALK,
WHEN A PERSON STOOD UP, A STUDENT STOOD UP AND SHOUTED
FROM THE FLOOR AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, "THERE IS TOO MUCH
OF EVIL IN THIS WORLD, THERE CAN'T BE A GOD; THERE'S TOO
MUCH OF EVIL AND SUFFERING IN THIS WORLD." AND THE IRONY
OF THAT QUESTION TO ME WAS, YOU KNOW, I COME FROM
THE EAST, I NOW LIVE IN THE WEST. I DON'T EVER
REMEMBER BEING ASKED THIS QUESTION IN THE EAST.
NOW THEY DO BECAUSE OF ALL THE CROSS-POLLINATION OF
THINKING AND ALL OF THAT.
BUT IT'S HARDLY EVER ADDRESSED. IN ISLAM YOU HARDLY
EVER FIND A BOOK DEALING WITH THIS SUBJECT.
IT'S INSHA'ALLAH, IT'S THE WILL OF ALLAH,
YOU KNOW. AND IN THE PANTHEISTIC SYSTEM
IT'S KARMA; YOU ARE PAYING YOUR DEBT AND SO ON.
IT'S IN THE WESTERN WORLD, WHERE WE ACTUALLY LIVE WITH
THE GREATEST COMFORTS, THAT WE RAISE THE QUESTION
ABOUT PAIN AND SUFFERING.
BUT THIS ENGLISHMAN RAISED IT, AND I SAID TO HIM,
"WHY DON'T I MAKE IT CLEAR FIRST, WHY YOU ARE ASKING
THIS QUESTION, AND WHAT YOUR ASSUMPTIONS ARE."
I SAID, "WHEN YOU SAY THERE IS EVIL, AREN'T YOU ASSUMING
THERE IS SUCH A THING AS GOOD?" HE PAUSED
AND HE SAID, "YES." I SAID, "WHEN YOU SAY THERE'S SUCH
A THING IS GOOD, AREN'T YOU ASSUMING THERE IS SUCH A THING
AS A MORAL LAW ON THE BASIS OF WHICH TO DIFFERENTIATE
BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL?"
HE STRUGGLED WITH THIS AND WE INTERACTED, AND FINALLY
HE SAID, "YEAH, THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE AN OBJECTIVE
MORAL STANDARD FROM WHICH TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN GOOD
AND EVIL." I SAID, "WHEN YOU SAY THERE IS
A MORAL LAW, YOU MUST POSIT A MORAL LAWGIVER.
BUT THAT'S WHOM YOU ARE TRYING TO DISPROVE AND NOT
PROVE. BECAUSE IF THERE IS NO MORAL LAW GIVER,
THERE IS NO MORAL LAW; IF THERE'S NO MORAL LAW,
THERE'S NO GOOD; IF THERE'S NO GOOD, THERE'S NO EVIL.
WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION?"
[CHUCKLE] AND HE LOOKED AT ME, PAUSED AND HE SAID,
"WHAT THEN AM I ASKING YOU?"
NOW THIS WAS YEARS AGO.
I SAID, "I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ME, AND I'M NOT TRYING
TO MAKE IT HARD FOR YOU.
IT'S AN EXISTENTIALLY FELT QUESTION THAT OFTEN
DOESN'T EXAMINE THE LOGICAL PRESUPPOSITIONS WITHIN THIS.
GOD HAS TO REMAIN IN THE PARADIGM FOR THE QUESTION
TO BE REAL, AND THEREFORE THE ANSWER HAS TO COME FROM
WHAT GOD'S PURPOSES AND GOD, GOD'S DESCRIPTION IS
ALL ABOUT REALITY."
IN A RECENT BOOK THAT I CO-AUTHORED WITH VINCE VITALI,
MY COLLEAGUE FROM OXFORD, WE CALLED IT WHY SUFFERING?.
MY OPENING CHAPTER WAS WHAT IS CALLED THE TRILEMMA.
GOD IS ALL POWERFUL, GOD IS ALL LOVING AND THERE IS EVIL;
THAT'S THE TRILEMMA, THE THREE REALITIES THAT
J.L. MACKIE, THE AUSTRALIAN PHILOSOPHER, SAYS
ARE INCOHERENT. GOD IS ALL POWERFUL; GOD IS LOVING;
EVIL EXISTS; HE SAYS IT'S AN INCOHERENCE.
SO MY QUESTION IS, WHY IS IT A TRILEMMA
AND NOT A QUADRILEMMA OR A QUINTILLEMA? INTRODUCE
ONE MORE: GOD IS ALL-KNOWING.
THAT'S ALSO A BELIEF WE HAVE.
AND NUMBER FIVE, GOD IS
ETERNAL. GOD IS NOT JUDGING
EVERYTHING JUST IN TIME,
THERE'S AN ETERNITY.
SO IT IS NOT JUST THE... THE,
THE QUESTION IS STACKED
WHEN IT IS STACKED AS
A TRILEMMA. GOD IS ALSO
ALL-KNOWING AND ETERNITY
ALSO EXISTS AS A REALITY.
AND MAYBE THOSE EXPLANATIONS
CAN COME IN ETERNITY.
LET ME JUST MOVE TO TWO QUICK ANSWERS ON THIS. THERE IS
A YOUNG GAL IN GEORGIA WHERE I LIVE. I LIVE IN ATLANTA.
AND SHE, HER FIRST NAME IS ASHLYN. AND ONE DAY
HER MOTHER WAS ON A TELEVISION PROGRAM DISCUSSING A STRANGE
PROBLEM THAT SHE HAS, WHICH IS CALLED CIPA,
CONGENITAL INSENSITIVITY TO PAIN WITH ANHIDROSIS.
SHE CANNOT FEEL PAIN AND HER SWEAT GLANDS DON'T WORK.
THE PROBLEM MAY SOUND GOOD-YOU DON'T FEEL IN
ANY PAIN. BUT THE REALITY IS, IF SHE STEPS ON A NAIL WHILE
SHE IS ON THE SPORTS FIELD, IT COULD PUNCTURE THE SKIN,
CREATE AN INFECTION, AND NOBODY COULD BE EVEN AWARE
OF IT. THE MOTHER SAID THE PROBLEMS IT HAS CREATED
IN HER LIFE, FOR WHAT THIS MALADY BRINGS INTO
HER BODY. SHE SAYS, "I PRAY ONE PRAYER
EVERY NIGHT, 'GOD, PLEASE LET MY DAUGHTER HELP TO FEEL
PAIN.'" SHE COULD PUT HER HAND ON A BURNER AND NOT KNOW
THAT HER HAND IS BURNING.
NOW MY QUESTION IS THIS.
IF, IN OUR FINITE EXISTENCE, WE CAN SEE THE ROLE OF PAIN
TO WARN US THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG, IS IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR
GOD, IN HIS INFINITE WISDOM, TO ALLOW PAIN IN OUR LIVES TO
HELP US KNOW THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG? PAIN IS FELT
WITH MORAL CONNOTATIONS IN THE HUMAN FRAMEWORK.
THAT IS BECAUSE WE ARE MORAL BEINGS; THEREFORE, THE ANSWER
HAS TO COME FROM WITHIN A MORAL SPIRITUAL FRAMEWORK
AS WELL. THE QUESTION ASSUMES MORAL REASONING, AND THAT CAN
ONLY BE ASSUMED IF GOD IS IN THE PARADIGM,
NOT PARADIGN...
NOT OUTSIDE OF IT.
>>ANKERBERG: YEAH AND YOU'VE ALSO SAID THERE'S ONLY THREE
OR FOUR OPTIONS FOR EXISTENCE THAT WE CAN IMAGINE.
GO THROUGH THOSE OPTIONS FOR THE FOLKS SO THEY CAN
HEAR THEM.
>>ZACHARIAS: YES. I THINK YOU CAN HAVE IT THIS WAY.
NUMBER ONE, GOD COULD HAVE CREATED NOTHING AT ALL,
THAT IS FOUR POSSIBLE WORLDS, AS IT WERE-GOD COULD HAVE
CREATED NOTHING; SO WE WOULDN'T BE THERE
TO BLAME HIM AND HE WOULD BE SELF-EXISTENT AND SO ON.
NUMBER TWO, GOD COULD HAVE CREATED A WORLD WHERE THERE
WERE NO SUCH THING AS GOOD OR EVIL; IT WOULD BE
AN AMORAL WORLD.
NUMBER THREE, GOD COULD HAVE CREATED A WORLD WHERE
WE WOULD ONLY CHOOSE GOOD, PROGRAMMED JUST TO CHOOSE
GOOD. OR NUMBER FOUR, GOD COULD HAVE CREATED
THIS WORLD WHERE THERE'S THE POSSIBILITY OF
GOOD AND EVIL, AND WE WILL THEN CHOOSE GOOD FOR WHAT
IS BETTER FOR US. THE FOURTH WORLD IS THE ONLY WORLD,
JOHN, IN WHICH LOVE IS POSSIBLE. IN THE OTHER THREE
PARADIGMS THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY OF LOVE,
NO WORLD CREATED, NO CREATED ORDER FOR FINITE BEINGS.
HOW DO FINITE BEINGS LOVE?
WHERE THERE IS AN AMORAL WORLD, NO SUCH THING AS GOOD
OR EVIL, THEREFORE LOVE COULD NOT BE THE SUPREME ETHIC.
WHERE WE WOULD ONLY CHOOSE LOVE, THEN IT IS NOT
A CHOICE, IT IS PROGRAMMED FOR YOU, YOU ARE THEN A MACHINE.
OR THIS WORLD, WHERE GOOD AND EVIL WERE POSSIBLE, AND LOVE
COULD BE CHOSEN. IF LOVE IS A SUPREME ETHIC, WHICH IT IS,
SUPEREROGATORY LOVE IS A GREATER LOVE, WHERE
SOMETIMES YOU COULD EVEN RESCUE, AT THE COST OF YOUR
OWN LIFE, RESCUE A TOTAL STRANGER; THAT SUPEREROGATORY
ACT WHERE LOVE IS SEEN AS, SEEN AS A SUPREME EXPRESSION.
ALL OF THOSE REALITIES ARE ONLY POSSIBLE IN THIS WORLD.
AND THEN, I ACTUALLY HAVE TO SAY ONE MORE THING, JOHN.
WHEN YOU READ OTHER WORLDVIEWS. AND IN MY BOOK
WHY SUFFERING?, I POINT OUT THE WRITERS WHAT THEY HAVE
SAID IN OTHER WORLDVIEWS-ONLY IN THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN WORLD
IS THERE REALLY AN ANSWER, BROUGHT ABOUT BY SIN AND
THE HEALING WITHIN AND THE COMFORT GOD GIVES.
THERE WAS A WOMAN WHOSE BIOGRAPHY I READ,
ANNIE JOHNSON FLINT.
SUFFERED IMMENSELY, SHE WAS, WITH RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS,
CANCER, BLINDNESS AND INCONTINENT. LIVED YEARS
WITH PILLOWS AROUND HER JUST TO CUSHION THE SORES ON
HER BODY. AND SHE WROTE MANY HYMNS. ONE OF THEM WAS THIS,
"HE GIVETH MORE GRACE WHEN THE BURDENS GROW GREATER
HE SENDETH MORE STRENGTH WHEN THE LABORS INCREASED TO ADDED
AFFLICTION HE ADDETH HIS MERCY. TO MULTIPLIED TRIALS
HIS MULTIPLIED PEACE.
WHEN WE HAVE EXHAUSTED OUR STORE OF ENDURANCE
WHEN OUR STRENGTH HAS FAILED AND THE DAY IS HALF DONE
WHEN WE REACH THE END OF OUR HOARDED RESOURCES
OUR FATHER FULL GIVING HAS ONLY BEGUN. HIS LOVE HAS
NO LIMIT, HIS GRACE HAS NO MEASURE HIS POWER HAS
NO BOUNDARIES KNOWN UNTO MEN.
FOR OUT OF HIS INFINITE RICHES IN JESUS HE GIVETH
AND GIVETH AND GIVETH AGAIN."
GOD SUSTAINS US IN OUR PAIN AND SUFFERING."
WHEN I ENDURED MY BACK, I LIVED WITH PAIN I NEVER
EVER THOUGHT WAS POSSIBLE.
I WOULD SIT IN THE, MY CAR SOMETIMES, HEAD ON
THE STEERING WHEEL, AND JUST CRY BECAUSE OF THREE
HERNIATED DISCS AND STENOSIS.
WONDERED WHERE I WAS HEADED WITH ALL OF THIS.
BUT I WILL TELL YOU WHAT; IT HAS TAUGHT ME HOW GOD'S GRACE
IS SUFFICIENT AND MADE ME FOREVER DEPENDENT ON HIM.
IN EFFECT, PAIN CAN BECOME GOD'S INVITATION TO LIVE.
ONE MORE THING:
"NOW ABIDE THESE THREE:
FAITH, HOPE AND LOVE. AND
THE GREATEST OF THESE IS LOVE."
THESE ARE THE 3 EXCELLENCIES
OF LIFE. THEY ARE IMPOSSIBLE
WITHOUT SUFFERING.
>>ANKERBERG: WE'RE TALKING WITH RAVI ZACHARIAS
AND, RAVI, HERE IS
THE QUESTION. A STUDENT ASKS,
"WHAT ABOUT THE LAW
OF NON-CONTRADICTION?
I FEEL LIKE CHRISTIANITY AT
ITS CORE VIOLATES THE DOCTRINE
OF NON-CONTRADICTION.
THE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE OF GOD
AS TRINITY CLAIMS THAT
GOD IS BOTH ONE AND THREE.
ARE CHRISTIANS VIOLATING
THIS LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION?"
>>ZACHARIAS: GOOD QUESTION.
I THINK WE AS CHRISTIANS
THINK A LOT ABOUT IT.
AND ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE EAST IT IS A REAL
ENIGMA TO THE MUSLIM MIND WHO THINKS WE ARE POLYTHEISTIC.
AND NOW HERE IN THE WEST IT IS RAISED AS A PROBLEM OF
VIOLATING THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION.
BUT, TWO OR THREE THINGS AS A BACKDROP THAT ARE IMPORTANT
HERE, JOHN, FOR THE LISTENER TO UNDERSTAND.
AND THE FIRST THING IS THIS.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GOD, WHEN WE USE LANGUAGE ABOUT GOD,
THOMAS AQUINAS WAS SO GOOD IN THIS. HE SAID THERE ARE
THREE WAYS WE CAN USE LANGUAGE, UNIVOCALLY,
EQUIVOCALLY OR ANALOGICALLY.
UNIVOCALLY MEANING WHEN WE USE THE SAME WORD
IN TWO DIFFERENT SENTENCES WE MEAN THE SAME THING.
SO IF I SAY I LOVE YOU AND ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS LOVE YOU,
YOU IMMEDIATELY TAKE IT TO MEAN THE SAME THING;
IT'S THE SAME WORD.
BUT THEN COMES ALONG THE EQUIVOCATION.
I SAY TO YOU, "I LOVE YOU, JOHN, AND GOD LOVES YOU TOO."
I HAVE USED THE SAME WORD, BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU KNOW
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN WHAT I ACTUALLY MEAN; BECAUSE
GOD LOVES YOU IN A DIFFERENT WAY TO THE WAY I LOVE YOU.
YOU SAY, WELL, IF IT'S AN EQUIVOCATION THERE,
WHAT DOES IT HELP ME TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE USING THE SAME
WORD? AQUINAS SAID THERE IS AN ANALOGICAL USAGE.
BY ANALOGY WE USE LANGUAGE ABOUT GOD. SO IF I SAY
I LOVE YOU AND YOU REFUSE TO LOVE ME, I WILL HURT.
I WILL HURT BECAUSE I HAVE LOST SOMETHING.
BUT IF I SAY GOD LOVES YOU AND IF YOU DON'T LOVE GOD,
GOD HURTS TOO.
I SAID BUT, JOHN, GOD HURTS FOR A DIFFERENT REASON.
I HURT BECAUSE I HAVE LOST SOMETHING; WHEN GOD HURTS,
GOD HURTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE LOST SOMETHING.
THE ANALOGICAL USAGE RAISES THE WHOLE QUESTION OF GOD.
THAT'S WHY AQUINAS SAID GOD IS OFTENTIMES MORE
THE QUESTION THAN THE ANSWER, BECAUSE TO UNDERSTAND HIM.
SO HERE IS WHAT I SAY.
WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE TRINITY, HE IS ONE IN ONE
SENSE AND THREE IN ANOTHER SENSE. HE IS NOT ONE
AND THREE IN THE SAME SENSE.
WHY DO I SAY THAT?
GOD IS NOT A PHYSICAL QUANTITY OR AN ENTITY.
YOU AND I ARE PHYSICAL BEINGS; WE TALK OF ONE IN THREE
PHYSICALLY. GOD IS A SPIRITUAL BEING AT HIS CORE.
AND SO, WHEN WE TALK OF THE FATHER, THE SON AND
THE HOLY SPIRIT, C. S. LEWIS PUTS IT IN THESE TERMS.
HE SAID IF YOU HAVE ONE DIMENSION YOU CAN HAVE
A LINE; YOU HAVE TWO DIMENSIONS YOU HAVE
FIGURES; YOU HAVE THREE DIMENSIONS YOU HAVE
AN OBJECT. HE SAID THE MORE YOU RISE IN THE CAPACITY
OF DIMENSIONS, YOU HAVE THE SAME BASIC INFORMATION,
BUT IN A MORE COMPLEX FORM AS YOU RISE WITH
EACH DIMENSION. GOD IS NOT IN THE DIMENSION OF FINITUDE
THAT WE ARE. HE IS AN INFINITE BEING. THE DISCIPLES WERE
FISHERMAN; THEY KNEW ONE FISH AND THREE FISHES WERE NOT
THE SAME. THEY COULD QUANTITATIVELY KNOW
THE DIFFERENCE. BUT WHEN THEY CAME TO THIS TRUTH
OF THE TRINITY, THE FATHER, THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT,
THE FATHER WHO SENDS THE SON, THE FATHER AND THE SON
WHO SEND, WHO SEND THE HOLY SPIRIT,
THEY RECOGNIZED THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS TRUTH FOR WHAT IT WAS:
GOD WAS A BEING IN
RELATIONSHIP. AND I THINK
THIS IS KEY. HE IS A BEING
IN RELATIONSHIP.
NOW, GO BACK TO THE ABSTRACT NOTION OF ONE AND THREE.
THE GREATEST PURSUIT OF THE GREEK PHILOSOPHERS WAS
TO FIND UNITY IN DIVERSITY.
THEY SAW UNITY AS A PURSUIT, DIVERSITY AS A REALITY.
THAT'S WHY THEY CREATED UNIVERSITIES.
DEFINE UNITY IN DIVERSITY: THAT'S WHY AMERICA WAS
CREATED-E PLURIBUS UNUM, OUT OF THE MANY ONE.
BUT WHAT THEY COULD NOT FIND IN EDUCATION, WE FIND UNITY
AND DIVERSITY AS A PURSUIT; BECAUSE THERE'S UNITY
IN DIVERSITY IN THE FIRST CAUSE-THE UNITY IN DIVERSITY
IN THE COMMUNITY OF THE TRINITY. GOD IS A BEING
IN RELATIONSHIP.
THAT'S WHY WE HUNGER FOR RELATIONSHIP. THAT HUNGER
IS PLANTED WITHIN US; WHETHER IT'S HUSBAND, WIFE, OR
FRIEND OR PARENT AND CHILD; ALL OF THESE ARE REALITIES.
AND SO I SAY IF GOD WERE NOT A BEING IN RELATIONSHIP,
WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO SAY GOD IS LOVE? OR YOU SAY
GOD HAS SPOKEN. WHO IS HE SPEAKING TO? WHO IS HE LOVING?
HE WOULD END UP AS A MONAD IN NEED OF A CREATED ORDER
IN ORDER TO EXPRESS BOTH LOVE AND COMMUNICATION.
I THINK WE ARE TO LEAVE IT, AS MORTIMER ADLER SAID,
"IN THE MYSTERY AND THE MAJESTY OF THE COMPLEXITY
OF THE GODHEAD."
THAT HE IS A BEING IN RELATIONSHIP WHO LOVES US,
AND THERE IS A HIERARCHICAL REALITY WITHIN THAT
THAT'S ALSO A TRUE ASPECT.
TO ME THE TRINITY IS NOT ONLY A BEAUTIFUL ANSWER, I THINK
IT IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION OF THE GREATEST PURSUIT OF
PHILOSOPHERS AND EXPERIENCE.
>>ANKERBERG; YEAH,
GREAT ANSWER.
AND I, I WANT YOU
TO FOLLOW THAT UP WITH A STORY, A PARABLE,
THAT YOU HAVE TOLD IN DIFFERENT PLACES,
THAT TALKS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THIS GOSPEL IS IN
OTHER TERMS. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD CALL IT. IT'S THE PARABLE
OF DESERT PETE.
>>ZACHARIAS: YEAH.
IT ALWAYS DATES ME, YOU KNOW.
MY WIFE SAYS TO ME THAT MY MUSIC DAYS DIED
IN THE 60'S; ALL OF THE MUSIC, THE SONGS I HUM, YOU KNOW.
ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, EVEN IN INDIA, EVEN THOSE THAT ARE
LISTENING FROM INDIA, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE GREATEST
SONGS, YOU KNOW, THAT IS MOHAMMED RAFI, OR MANNA DEY
OR LATA MANGESHKAR, THEY WERE ALL GREAT MUSICIANS OF
THE 60'S IN INDIA.
AND HERE WE HAVE THE GREAT SINGERS LIKE PRESLEY AND
ALL OF THOSE WHO MADE BIG-TIME.
BUT WHEN I WAS LISTENING AS A YOUNGSTER IN DELHI,
THERE WAS A SONG BY THE KINGSTON TRIO.
IT'S CALLED "DESERT PETE."
TALKED ABOUT A MAN WHO WAS WALKING THROUGH THE DESERT.
AND HE IS USING UP ALL THE BOTTLES OF WATER SLUNG
AROUND HIS SHOULDERS, AND REALIZES THE WATER IS GONE.
AND HE IS GOING TO DIE OF DEHYDRATION. UNTIL HE SEES
A PUMP AND HE WALKS OVER TO,... AND YOU KNOW,
I'M LISTENING TO THESE THINGS WITH THE HIDDEN MEANINGS,
YOU KNOW. HE LOOKS AT THE PUMP AND HE WANTS TO FIND WATER
THERE, BUT HE LIFTS THE ARM; THE SOUND OF METAL UPON METAL;
NO WATER. UNTIL HE SEES A TIN CAN SLUNG AROUND
THE NOZZLE. INSIDE THE TIN CAN IS A PAPER.
IN THE PAPER IS A MESSAGE.
IT SAYS, "DEAR PASSERBY, DON'T DESPAIR. THERE IS
A LOT OF WATER HERE, JUST FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS.
LOOK BELOW THE NOZZLE, THE PORTION OF SAND,
DIG IT OUT. UNDER THE SAND IS A BOTTLE OF WATER.
IT SHOULD BE FULL.
DON'T DRINK IT.
EMPTY IT OUT INTO THE CYLINDER, GRADUALLY
PRIMING THE PUMP WITH THE OTHER HAND, AND
THE SUCTION SYSTEM WILL BEGIN TO WORK. WATER WILL COME
GUSHING OUT. DRINK ALL THE WATER YOU WANT,
REFILL ALL THE BOTTLES YOU'VE GOT. DON'T FORGET
TO FILL UP THAT ONE BOTTLE AND PUT IT DOWN FOR
THE NEXT PERSON WHO COMES.
WARNING: YOU ARE GOING TO BE TEMPTED TO DISBELIEVE
THIS NOTE AND CONSUME THAT ONE BOTTLE OF WATER
ON YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE IT AND FEEL IT.
YOU WILL SOON BE THIRSTY AGAIN AND SO WILL
EVERYBODY ELSE WHO COMES BY.
EMPTY IT OUT AS I HAVE INSTRUCTED IT TO YOU.
YOU WILL HAVE ALL OF THE WATER YOU WANT AND
SO WILL THE NEXT PERSON WHO COMES BY. SIGNED, DESERT PETE."
YOU KNOW, THAT'S LIKE THE SIGNATURE OF OUR LORD,
IN A LAND WHERE WE ARE PARCHED AND THIRSTY
FOR MEANING AND HOPE AND SALVATION. HE TELLS US WE HAVE
A CHOICE. WE CAN CONSUME OUR LIVES UPON OURSELVES.
AND WHERE DO WE END UP?
YOU SEE, THE LONELIEST PERSON IN THE WORLD IS NOT ONE WHO'S
WEARY OF PAIN, BUT ONE WHO IS WEARY OF PLEASURE.
THERE IS NO PLACE TO GO.
WE END UP EMPTY.
JESUS SAID, "EMPTY, EMPTY YOUR LIFE INTO MY HANDS.
I WILL GIVE YOU ETERNAL LIFE.
IF YOU CONSUME IT ON YOURSELF, YOU WILL SOON BE THIRSTY
AGAIN; YOU WILL SOON BE LONGING AND MEANING WILL
BE GONE." THAT'S WHAT HE SAID TO THE WOMAN AT THE WELL,
"I CAN GIVE YOU THE WATER SO THAT YOU WILL NEVER
THIRST AGAIN."
AND SO TO THE LISTENER I SAY THIS, ARE YOU HONEST WITH
YOURSELF IN YOUR SEARCH, THAT YOU REALLY ARE BEREFT
OF MEANING AND PURPOSE?
WITH ALL OF THE WEALTH YOU MAY HAVE AND ALL OF
THE EDUCATION, WHERE HAS IT BROUGHT YOU? DEEP INSIDE
YOU ARE STILL LONGING FOR THE MOST MEANINGFUL
RELATIONSHIP OF ALL. THAT WILL COME IN YOUR RELATIONSHIP
WITH JESUS CHRIST.
SUBMIT YOURSELF; POUR YOUR LIFE INTO HIS HANDS.
THAT'S THE STORY OF THE PARABLE OF DESERT PETE,
JOHN, AND IT'S THE STORY OF OUR LIVES WITH JESUS CHRIST.
>>ANKERBERG: I, I LOVE THAT STORY. AND IN THE FEW
MINUTES THAT WE'VE GOT LEFT, THINK OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE
WATCHING IN INDIA RIGHT NOW.
THINK OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE IN THE DIFFERENT STATES OF
EUROPE; DOWN IN AFRICA.
AND I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN TO THEM, BECAUSE THEY MAY BE
CONFUSED, OKAY.
THEY KNOW JESUS CHRIST WAS A HISTORICAL PERSON, AND
THAT'S ABOUT AS FAR AS THEY'VE GOT. THEY WANT
TO KNOW, HOW DOES IT IMPACT ME THAT HE LIVED?
AND MAYBE YOU COULD TAKE THEM BACK TO YOUR OWN STORY OF
HOW YOU STARTED, HOW YOU CAME IN CONTACT WITH JESUS CHRIST.
AND I WANT YOU TO LEAD THEM TO JESUS AND MAYBE OFFER
A MODEL PRAYER THAT THEY COULD INVITE CHRIST
INTO THEIR LIFE.
>>ZACHARIAS: YOU KNOW, SOME YEARS AGO I WAS AT ONE OF
THE MOST DANGEROUS PRISONS IN AMERICA. IT'S CALLED
ANGOLA PRISON; OVER 5,000 PRISONERS, 85% OF THEM
ON LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE.
AND AS I LOOKED AT THEM AND TALKED TO THEM, SOME AMAZING
STORIES EMERGED.
ONE OF THEM TOLD ME IT TOOK PRISON TO BRING HIM TO JESUS
CHRIST, AND IF THAT'S WHAT IT TOOK, HE WAS NOW FREER THAN
HE HAD EVER BEEN.
AND AS I SAW THAT, I REALIZED, THE WORST EFFECT
OF SIN IS NOT MANIFEST IN PAIN OR BODILY DEFACEMENT BUT IN
THE DISCROWNED FACULTIES, THE UNWORTHY LOVES,
THE LOW IDEALS THAT BRUTALIZE IN THE ENSLAVED SPIRIT.
WE ARE ENSLAVED IN OUR SPIRIT.
THAT'S WHERE I WAS; AND AT THE AGE OF 17 INVITED
JESUS CHRIST INTO MY LIFE.
AND THEN YEARS LATER I SAW MY FATHER DO IT;
HIGHLY-POWERED MAN IN INDIA WHO WALKED UP AT A CHURCH
SERVICE AND BENT AT THE ALTAR AND SURRENDERED HIS LIFE
TO CHRIST. MY WIFE SAID BY LOOKING AT HIS PICTURE
SHE COULD TELL WHEN HE GAVE HIS LIFE TO JESUS CHRIST.
FROM A HARD ANGRY MAN TO THE MOST TENDER MAN I HAD
EVER KNOWN. YOU ARE WATCHING THIS PROGRAM FOR A PURPOSE.
YOU ARE ENSLAVED ON THE INSIDE; ALL OF US
IS ENSLAVED ON THE INSIDE.
AND SO I SAY TO YOU, ARE YOU, DO YOU WANT TO BE FREE?
DO YOU WANT TO THAT, HAVE THAT FREEDOM FOR WHICH
GOD HAS CREATED AND DESIGNED YOU? IF SO, WHY DON'T YOU
BOW YOUR HEAD WITH ME AND PRAY WITH ME ONE LINE AT
A TIME. HE IS THE LIBERATOR; HE IS THE REDEEMER; HE FREES
YOU FROM THAT ENSLAVEMENT FROM WITHIN, WHATEVER IT MAY BE.
JUST BOW YOUR HEAD NOW AND PRAY WITH ME.
HEAVENLY FATHER, YOU BROUGHT ME TO LISTEN TO THIS BY
YOUR WILL. THIS IS NO ACCIDENT.
I AM WATCHING THIS PROGRAM BECAUSE YOU WANTED ME HERE.
TODAY I CRY OUT TO YOU.
I AM IN CHAINS ON THE INSIDE.
FREE ME FROM MY SIN, FORGIVE ME FOR MY SIN.
TAKE MY WILL AND MAKE IT YOURS.
MAKE ME A NEW PERSON AND LET MY LIFE FOLLOW YOUR ROADMAP.
I NEED YOU. I WANT YOU.
I SUBMIT TO YOU, LORD JESUS.
BE MY SAVIOR FROM NOW ON.
THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY PRAYER. IN YOUR HOLY NAME
I ASK THIS, AMEN.
>>ANKERBERG: WONDERFUL, RAVI.
AND, FOLKS, I HOPE THAT YOU DID SAY THAT PRAYER.
OR IF YOU'RE STILL THINKING
ABOUT IT, THAT'S OKAY.
AT OUR WEBSITE, JASHOW.ORG,
YOU CAN FIND A PLACE WHERE
IT SAYS, "TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST
OR TO PRAY AND ACCEPT JESUS
AS YOUR SAVIOR." AND IT WILL EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE
INFORMATION ABOUT HIM, BUT IT WILL ALSO GIVE
YOU A MODEL PRAYER THAT YOU CAN PRAY. IF YOU HAVE PRAYED
THAT PRAYER, THERE IS SOME ENCOURAGEMENT;
THERE'S SOME PROMISES FOR YOU ON HOW TO LIVE WITH
THE LORD JESUS. YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING. YOU HAVEN'T
EXPERIENCED HIS POWER IN EVERYTHING. SO JUST TAKE
IT STEP BY STEP. GOD LOVES YOU AND HE'LL WORK WITH YOU
JUST WHERE YOU'RE AT.
RAVI, I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR BREAKING INTO YOUR BUSY
SCHEDULE AND COMING AND SHARING THESE SIX PROGRAMS
WITH ALL OF OUR AUDIENCE.
AND I JUST APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR SCHOLARSHIP AND ALL OF
THE TIME THAT YOU HAVE PUT INTO TACKLING THESE TOUGH
QUESTIONS, AND FOR YOUR COURAGE TO TAKE ON AUDIENCES
ALL AROUND THE WORLD.
AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN HAVE YOU BACK IN THE FUTURE.
AND, FOLKS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO KNOW HOW TO GET ALL OF
THE INFORMATION THAT RAVI HAS PRESENTED TO US DURING
THESE SIX PROGRAMS, JUST A LOT OF INFORMATION, STAY TUNED.
WE'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW.
>>ANNOUNCER: IF YOU WOULD
LIKE TO HAVE ALL
OF THE INFORMATION IN
OUR NEW SERIES, RAVI ZACHARIAS
ANSWERS QUESTIONS FROM EUROPE,
THE MIDDLE EAST AND AMERICA.
AREN'T ALL RELIGIONS
BASICALLY THE SAME?
ISN'T JESUS JUST ONE OF MANY PROPHETS?
ISN'T IT UNFAIR TO CLAIM THAT ALL
THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED
BEFORE CHRISTIANITY
ARE DAMNED TO HELL?
IS THE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE OF
THE TRINITY, THAT GOD IS BOTH
ONE AND THREE, A VIOLATION OF
THE LAW OF NON-CONTRADICTION?
IF GOD IS ALL POWERFUL,
AND ALL LOVING, WHY WOULD
HE CHOOSE TO CREATE A WORLD
HE KNEW WOULD FALL APART
AND BRING SO MUCH EVIL AND
SUFFERING? IT'S AVAILABLE
ON DVD FOR A GIFT OF $49.
THEN OUR SECOND SERIES IS CALLED
RAVI ZACHARIAS ANSWERS SKEPTICS,
IT IS AVAILABLE
FOR A GIFT OF $49.
IN THIS SERIES RAVI DESCRIBES
HOW HE GREW UP IN INDIA WHERE
HIS ANCESTORS BELONGED TO
THE HIGHEST CASTE OF HINDU
PRIESTS. IN A LAND OF
330 MILLION DEITIES
HE OFTEN PONDERED LIFE'S
MEANING, BUT FINALLY LOST
HOPE AND ATTEMPTED
TO TAKE HIS OWN LIFE.
WHILE IN THE HOSPITAL A MAN
GAVE HIM A BIBLE AND HE READ
JESUS' WORDS "BECAUSE I LIVE,
YOU SHALL ALSO LIVE."
HE THEN GAVE HIS LIFE TO
JESUS CHRIST AND WENT ON
TO BECOME ONE OF THE MOST
BRILLIANT CHRISTIAN
APOLOGISTS IN THE WORLD.
IN THIS SERIES HE ALSO
ANSWERS THE QUESTION
"CAN MAN LIVE WITHOUT GOD?"
AND SUMMARIZES A LECTURE
SERIES HE WAS ASKED TO GIVE
AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY.
AND THEN THIRD HE ANSWERS
THE MOST ASKED QUESTIONS
HE RECEIVES FROM STUDENTS
IN THE FAR EAST. THE THREE
PROGRAMS IN THIS IMPORTANT
SERIES ARE AVAILABLE ON DVD
FOR A GIFT OF $49 U.S.
THEN THIRD, WE HAVE WRITTEN
TWO NEW STUDY GUIDES WITH
EXTENSIVE NOTES THAT PARALLEL
OUR TWO TELEVISION SERIES.
EACH STUDY GUIDE CONTAINS
THREE SESSIONS FOR YOUR
PERSONAL STUDY OR BIBLE STUDY
GROUP AND IS AVAILABLE FOR
A GIFT OF $8 EACH OR FOR FIVE
OR MORE COPIES FOR $5 EACH.
AND FINALLY IF YOU WISH
TO ORDER ALL FOUR OF THESE
ITEMS TOGETHER, THAT IS
BOTH TELEVISION SERIES
PLUS THE TWO STUDY GUIDES,
THEY ARE AVAILABLE TOGETHER
IN A SPECIAL PACKAGE FOR ONLY
$99 U.S. THOSE OF YOU LIVING
IN AMERICA OR CANADA,
YOU MAY ORDER THIS SERIES
NOW BY CALLING US
AT 1-800-805-3030.
THAT'S 1-800-805-3030.
AND IF YOU LIVE IN OTHER
COUNTRIES, YOU MAY ORDER
THESE PROGRAMS NOW
AT OUR WEBSITE AT JASHOW.ORG.
THAT'S JASHOW.ORG.
>>ANNOUNCER: AND TO LEARN
HOW TO START A RELATIONSHIP
WITH JESUS CHRIST, GO TO
OUR WEBSITE AT JASHOW.ORG.
AND CLICK ON:
"PRAY TO ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST
AS YOUR SAVIOR."
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