good evening welcome to tucker carlson tonight well it turns out the DOJ failed
to dictate the final result of the 2016 presidential election despite the
fervent efforts of some of the bureaucrats who work there but a year
and a half into the Trump administration the Justice Department still seems at
times to be operating as a kind of shadow government a place that considers
itself beyond the reach of normal oversight back in the real world
congress has the explicit constitutional power to oversee the FBI and all other
executive agencies that's the way it's supposed to work apparently that fact
infuriates the Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein earlier this year in January
Rosen Stein threatened to subpoena the emails and the phone records of staffers
on the House Intelligence Committee because the committee was being too
aggressive in its probe of the Russia investigation the message from Rosen
Stein back off you won't investigate us we will investigate you
Fox chief intelligence correspondent Catherine Herridge broke that story she
has more on tonight Catherine well thanks Tucker the emails written on
government accounts formally documented the January meeting for the House Office
of General Counsel the hell's top lawyer who is charged with protecting Congress
and its oversight bonds abilities those two are meeting included Deputy Attorney
General Rod Rosenstein FBI director Christopher ray their senior advisors as
well as House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunez and his senior
staff and it came with the height of alleged government surveillance abuses
aimed at the Trump campaign today senior lawmakers responded to allegations the
Deputy Attorney General rod Rosenstein threatened to subpoena records and
turned the tables on the republican-led House Intelligence Committee and staff
over the Russia case it is deeply concerning that instead of having a
cooperative relationship with this agency respectful of the importance of
the Congress having access to documents regarding matters that they're
investigating that they have oversight responsibility for and this is not a way
to conduct that the FBI Justice Department strongly dispute the
characterization of Justice Department official told Fox News Rosen Stein never
threatened anyone with a criminal investigation House Intelligence
Committee Democrats took aim a chairman Nunez who staffers documented the
incident I know the reputation of rod Rosenstein
that is one of impeccable character and I know the reputation of Devon Nunez and
that is one of misleading obstructing attempting to intervene in an
investigation late today chairman unas and Republican
members of the House Intelligence Committee signed this letter to rod
Rosen side rejecting another briefing by the FBI
Justice Department tomorrow saying anything short of providing the records
that are under subpoena in their opinion is an obstruction of justice Tucker
Catherine thank you for that and for breaking that story in the first place
rod Rosen Stein's recent behavior is not the only example of the DOJ apparently
viewing itself as beyond normal oversight months ago we discovered that
FBI agents Peter Strock and Lisa page were political ideologues whose personal
views intruded on their law enforcement duties how far did their misconduct go
and who else might be involved the public has a right to know that but we
don't because the DOJ keeps trying to censor the text messages between struck
and page before releasing them here's one example in a September 2015 text
wrap complain but the do J's handling of a case but his exact complaint was
redacted why we don't know but thanks to work by Senator Ron Johnson office we
know that struck was complaining that the DOJ wanted to quote bargain away
everything and that it had quote Stockholm Syndrome castrati been
referring to how the DOJ handled the Hillary Clinton email investigation and
how we did everything it could to avoid bringing charges against any of
Clinton's team it looks that way from the context but it's still not clear
what is clear is that nothing struck said was a security threat that would
require a redaction in order to protect this country
the DOJ was just trying to cover itself to keep the public from learning the
truth about what was going on is that a defense Jonathan Turley is Professor
George Washington law school and he joins us tonight professor it's a very
simple question is the Department of Justice allowed to redact information
solely for the purpose of protecting its own reputation it is not even though it
has a long history of doing so not just in Congress but in the court so it's
really funny is that they will charge someone who gives the
misleading information but they'll tell Congress that they've redacted
classified information that proves entirely unclassified and there is this
sense of acting with utter impunity when you redact these types of documents if
you look at the language that was uncovered by Senator Johnson and his
staff that material is could not be considered classified under any
definition so the question is why the committee has long accepted this type of
conduct including Democrats they can disagree with chairman Nunez they can
disagree with the White House but they should all agree on the fact that this
is an improper use of redaction and it's been going on you said for quite some
times this is basically the status quo this is not a new way of doing business
unfortunately it is I've been counsel in national security cases against the
government where they have redacted material where I've objected to the
courts that it's clearly not classified I've been allowed into skiffs or
classified setting I've reviewed the material and this is a recurring
complaint among council and national security cases so in this specific case
you have the Deputy Attorney General and no one disputes these facts that the
characterization is different on either side but nobody disputes that rot
Rosenstein went over to the congress and threatened to subpoena the personal
communications of members there have you ever seen anything like that and what
does it suggest about the relationship between the DOJ and the Oversight
Committee well first of all it's it really does reflect a long mistreatment
of Congress you know these committees have not had a robust oversight record
they often roll over this is something new and frankly those of us who've
wanted more oversight have welcomed the last year because finally you have a
committee saying wait we're not just going to accept any reactions you have
we're not going to take no for an answer on something we clearly have oversight
duties now threatening whether it's criminal or civil staffers or members is
clearly inappropriate you know Stanford Rose insane May felt that he
was being mistreated it doesn't matter you have to get over it
he Congress created the Department of Justice this isn't personal
it is oversight business so no matter how aggrieved you may be you cannot
speak to an oversight committee and threaten those staffers with taking
something like subpoenas to their doorstep the Congress does have
oversight over the executive agencies including the Department of Justice
correct or is that I mean watch the other channels and you'd think that that
was something that right-wingers made up last week that's a constitutional
principle and I might that sounds absolutely right and you really
shouldn't pick fights with people like with oversight power yeah I guess you
shouldn't professor thank you very much I appreciate it Thank You Tucker Deena
Goldman is the former federal prosecutor named to insist mr. Goldman thank you
for coming on my pleasure so you just heard Jonathan Turley make I
thought a good point and what I've heard others make before that this has been
going on for a long time not just in this administration but in previous
administrations where the Department of Justice withholds information
inappropriately from Congress claiming that that information is classified
and when unredacted it turns out to have been not classified others they were
lying why would anyone ever defend that practice well these things can often be
subject to interpretation and the prosecutor may have some belief at an
initial stage that there are or the Department of Justice may have a belief
an initial stage that things may be classified out there in relation to that
case or in other cases or there may be some theory that it is classified the
defense attorney disagrees that it's and says it's not classified and ultimately
a judge decides it this is no different than let me give you an example yeah
this is a little bit different so for example the Department of Justice the
Trump Department of Justice I'll say withheld this information from the
Congress that Andrew McCabe spent $70,000 on a conference table now you
could argue the right to do that or it was repaired or whatever but you can't
argue that that information is itself classified or critical to American
national security that's but covering why would anyone defend
well you're very you're trying to hone in on one particular reason why things
are redacted or why things should not what would be the justification for
redacting Andrew McCabe spending 70 grand on a conference table I don't I
don't know you know and I don't know the the detailed circumstances I think the
the point that I would want to make to you and listening to what Jonathan
Turley just said as well first of all is we're looking at these as redactions and
we're looking at the oversight role into the Department of Justice I think you
have to draw a very clear line between investigations that are over such as the
Clinton email investigations and investigations that are ongoing such as
the Trump Russia investigation and there is a long-standing practice that the
Department of Justice does not give over information relevant to ongoing
investigations to Congress and that's something that the House Intelligence
Committee in you through the use of their purported oversight role has sort
of a done away with and is driving a purported oversight role do they not
have an oversight role they have an oversight role but I mean purported
oversight role well they're using the guise of their oversight role to ask for
information that they should either that they should not get or that they are
potentially and and by all by many accounts coordinating with the White
House and others who are the subject of the investigation that's a little higher
lien but I understand that you're a partisan involved in a partisan debate
but take three steps back there's a public interest here so we know that the
last administration had a paid informant spying on at least three members of the
Trump campaign now maybe there was a good reason for that maybe there wasn't
but the fact of it is true and it's known by the public and the fact of it
shakes the public's faith in the integrity of the Department of Justice
so why wouldn't responsible people do their very best to explain why the hell
that happened as soon as they possibly can and calm public fears that the
system is corrupt because public is beginning to believe it is including me
why wouldn't we have right to know why that happened I
actually think I'm not at all partisan I think the people who use the term spy in
the context of a confidential informant are doing so only for partisan reasons
because a spy does not exist within the FBI so when you're going down the road
of using the spy speaking plain English and what you're doing is carrying water
for a political party I am saying that they spied on members of the Trump
campaign to gathered information without the knowledge of the people they were
speaking which happens in thousands of investigations it happens it may it may
but it doesn't answer the question which I think I have a right to know which is
why did that happen you don't have a right is not normal this is not you you
don't confidential FBI investigations are confidential for very important
reasons including the protection of people who aren't charged including for
the protection of sources and information you don't have a right to
you understand actually I would disagree with you completely and I know that you
are a former prosecutors are coming at this from a different point of view
obviously but we know that this happened no one is disputing it happens we know
the names of the people involved and so all that information is public it's been
in the New York Times you don't acknowledge that there's a public
interest in explaining this to the public so they can trust their
government again why was the Obama administration spying on the Trump
campaign you don't like to work I don't dispute that there is a public interest
I I don't dispute there's a planner absolutely a public interest it is
outweighed in the current moment by an ongoing and confidential investigation
the public does have a right to know at some point after the ongoing
investigation is not jeopardized me who are asking honest and in my case
sincerely nonpartisan questions like how the hell did this happen why am I being
attacked as someone who was challenging the rule of law or seeking to undermine
the system my position is I'm trying to preserve public faith in this system
with sunlight I mean I thought that was a traditionally liberal position is it
not I agree with you but I I'm all I'm saying is that there there absolutely is
a public interest I do think that you and others have a right to know what
happened during the course of an investigation just not while the
investigation is going on and that's the critical difference by preserving the
rule of law you have to preserve the confidentiality of the investigation so
witnesses can't tailor their testimony so sources are protecting ultimately it
will all come out and you will do have a right to know and that's why I draw the
distinction between the client email investigation which is in which is over
and an ongoing investigation where this confidential informant is very relevant
Daniel thank you for that I appreciate it thank you House Republicans making
another push at immigration will their bills fulfill the president's promises
during the campaign or are they yet another sock to the donor class we'll
get to the bottom of that question next

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