...And this is why Sergio Chejfec´s work has
that potential to open these interpretational horizons.
We are talking a lot about his essay but I would also like to talk about your essay because
it is an essay where several perspectives appear
which I had not considered
where you place me in a sort of bridge,
Id like you to talk more about this,
because I feel it is at the center of this exhibit.
If I understand when you talk about the bridge
perhaps it's the bridge between
contemporary art as it is today
and painting in its most classical and traditional form,
because I feel you belong to a school
which had very deep roots
which is the work of painting,
stemming from the fracture, the image, the character, all fundamental parts of your work,
and I feel conceptual art today presumes concepts
before the actual creation of the work,
whereas as perhaps you go back and forth from the material and the idea, the materiality and the idea,
and that is a very original aspect within your work,
and by making this type of exhibit, the contemporary part is perhaps this gallery
because there is this whimsical aspect,
done in virtual time which is very important.
There is something else I wanted to ask you.
In the horizon of Latin American art,
The idea of the game is fundamental within your work, you invented,
because if I can remember correctly in the 60s and 70s
Abstract Geometry took on an important role within Latin American art,
later it would be Neoconcretism,
but you knew how to reintroduce the human figure and
I think this is what gives wings
to this ludic and free dimension that you give your work,
and I am sure that this is a great influence
in other artists in Southern Latin America
in witnessing this type of game,
I think of other artists in Southern Latin America,
I had mentioned this to you before,
I think of a series which Argentine artist Kuitca did in the 1980s
I think of artists such as Liliana Porter
who represented her country recently in the Venice Bienniale,
where she uses different characters, and I think that
this generation, because they are different generations,
that's interesting , one is from your generation,
like Liliana Porter,
and then Kuitca comes a little later,
but they in a sense
were very inspired by your work,
this hasn't been written about or said,
but if we look back historically we see that
you begin to reintroduce the character in your canvases very early on in your career
and perhaps you influenced other artists
which I have not mentioned, but I am interested in hearing more about this.
well there are two things, one thing is the dimension of the figure,
and the other is the proposition of the game.
The dimension of the figure appeared early on in my career when I lived in Cadaques.
Casually it was very simple, I was always interested in investigating
what size the character took on within a canvas,
how close or far the character were from the viewer in the canvas,
there were some painting from Degas and others,
I always studied how far from me the characters were,
some were too close but others were located at an interesting distance from me,
they produced in me a sense of their existence more distant,
there was an artist which his sizes and proportion within his canvas were very interesting was
he was a also a great influence to Dali
he had a size within the canvas which was very convincing,
but I remember one time living in Cadaques,
and we were with Claudia and she was leaving,
walking down a street,
I remember the street perfectly, winding up,
with huge high white walls,
which ended in another white high wall with a little bit of sky in the end,
but it was turning into another sort of immense room or space
that was frontal and square and her figure had a size,
and that size of her figure, surrounded by the immense volume of the walls,
made an important impact in my work,
I said this is the size, and there I had the box which is so important in my work.
The ceiling, walls, and floor in the painting
Exactly, yes, and it is the theatrical aspect of the story,
after knowing that the proportion worked for me because it generated a distance
and it allowed me to mark the distance between the work and the viewer,
and add other things,
in some of these figures that were white,
and dressed in white you could figure out the temperature in the story,
if it was summer or winter
all in the space where there was only one woman,
and I continued with this
and I realized
I could do the same play as I did as a child with my little tin soldiers,
making a parallel story to reality,
saying many things but at the same not, they were just little tin soldiers
because when you were little you could make a massacre with your tin soldiers,
but at the same time not, because they were toys, it wasn't real, there was no blood,
this allows for a language which opens doors where you can say a lot of things,
and these soldiers were allowed to live, because they were just toy soldiers,
next to a bottle or a plate
and this is where a new dimension is marked,
an absolute personal game with me, and which started with me,
and which I had not seen on any other artist.
After that, other objects begin to transform themselves, that figure can enter a cup,
or a bath sink and you remember when you were a child and you played with your little cars
and the bath sink stops being a sink and its rim becomes a highway that leads to the beach,
and the white on the sink reminded me of Cadaques,
or the water faucets have a left and right side,
which provide hot from the left side or cold water from the right,
and they begin to transform themselves, the game appears,
The faucets can become elephants or animals that spit out water,
the reflection on the mirror, there is a whole game around the mirror.
It can be seen from a psychoanalytic perspective and Lacaan,
Velasquez, the mirror, Las Meninas, so many avenues
There, new things begin to appear, appear the size,
the shadow, the reflection,
because there is a reflection on the water and a reflection on the mirror,
but not necessarily… the reflection that I painted on the mirror,
a character could be painted here inside the pool and put its reflection on the mirror,
but I could also put things in the pool that did not have a reflection,
or have a reflection in the mirror without and the actual figure up front,
and so a game begins and of course all sorts of combinations in the game and later all the interpretations,
but I leave that to you to explain
About the mirror we could talk for hours,
also about Velásquez, who is one of the great masters,
however in Velázquez there is also a game, isn't there?
That invites you from the outside to enter the space,
and characters appear including the king, and the artist himself.
It's a fundamental painting (Las Meninas) that has a great influence,
starting from the fact that Velázquez works with the box,
the painting is a box,
and the difference is very smart
is that he breaks the box up front with the canvas,
well there are some geometric aspects and sizes that are very important
but also that the figures that are in the back, where the door is open,
that make a hole which allows for the light,
the character who leans against the door,
it is a character which is this small,
the canvas could be empty and he could have made it with only that character,
and that is the importance of these painting
which allow you to think that they could have been made in different ways,
he could have included only the midget,
or only the painter who is Velázquez looking on,
it has many variations,
it is of great influence of suggestion to many artists.
I also think of Francis Bacon who also plays with the space of the canvas
with his slipping characters,
but the playful aspect really characterizes your work,
playful but also tragic,
because this is how life is
and also how theater is,
the comedy of art makes you laugh but also cry,
it's the theater of life,
and when I wrote the introduction of the catalogue
I thought of Pirandello,
because in Pirandello's theater, the characters
refuse to just be characters in a script,
they are characters which rebel and jump out of the book
and demand their right to exist
within the real space,
that is the great thing about Pirandello,
the idea of breaking the distance between representation and observation,
real life and the fictional world,
and it is interesting to see in your works how your characters almost jumping out of the canvas
These want to step out and step out of the canvas and are re-inverted.
The book I just made
They jumped out of the book now that you mention it, that's incredible
And this is why I see a parallel between Pirandello's theater and your work,
I have only opened a door but I think many art critics
who might be interested in following that idea many similar things,
also between the playwright as well as the playwright represented within the play,
and how they are auto represented, there is also that in Pirandello
These "mise en abyme"
And of course in your work we mention
the box which is very you, the game,
the play of light,
but also the idea of the "mise en abyme"
What is that?
The "mise en abyme" is when the artist portrays himself within the painting,
or the painter painting,
an example for instance is your work "La casa de la casa"
shows this idea because it is a painting that you called "house"
or a box within a box within a box,
with a character
which represents a box with a character, which represents another box with a character and so on,
and also the fact of where the painting is located within the gallery,
also plays with the space of the gallery
and creates another space, and so on
and one asks where does this "mise en abyme" ends.
That is all very theatrical.
Shakespeare uses this in a scene where the viewers in a scene are in the theater,
or in a Fellini movie where children in a scene are also watching a movie,
so theater and film have much to do with your work
It feels nobody discovers many things
and one arrives to certain things by coincidence,
I've arrived to these things by conclusion of my own work,
so… the truths and things appear and are not so complicated,
they can appear in any genre while you are working in them,
and… I am reminded of my mother when I am talking with her and I say something,
or she mentions something, something similar to know that you brought up Pirandello,
I didn't read Pirandello, that's curious,
I think sometimes I should read more and hang out more with you or with my mother,
those things afirm other things,
and allow me to see things with more clarity.
all these things that you mention about Pirandello and his characters coming out of the canvases are very provocative,
to be able to make a new painting,
its not that easy when you are not that much of a reader,
nor do I have that much contact with people who can share these provocative ideas.
But.. you are happy with the exhibit, right?
I am very happy, and not just me..
the enthusiasm I have seen from students,
professors, board, members, visitors,
we are all so happy.
And although we had made in the past
site specific installations in situ,
but never with this form of aperture
and tacit agreement between you and the museum for
to come and try new things,
because a studio is where new ideas are put to the test,
because when you arrive at a studio you are aware that the works are not finished,
and having the opportunity to see that experience is a gift that you leave us ,
and anyone who comes to this space will be very inspired
and if anyone had any questions about what it is to be a visual artist,
they will find many answers here.
You got excited, what an emotional person, incredible,
the truth is we agree on everything and we could play in the same team,
one kicks to the center and the other heads the ball,
you cant ask for more, so..
In direct for the BBC London

For more infomation >> Polyester - Bande Annonce (VOST) - Duration: 2:24. 
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